Conversation with Ken

Categories: Asexual Bingo * Authoritative Condescension * Elitism * Unwanted Advances

[This is a guy I met on the 'Net and later IRL. He is my infamous bad apple. I played it safe and met him in a Denny's when I was like nineteen, my second year of college. He listened well and seemed laid back (even when sexuality came up and I gave him the medium-sized version of the asexuality explanation), so we hung out that night and played video games together in my room while my roomies were asleep.]

[Then when we were parting in the morning, he wanted a kiss. I said no, understandably perplexed since he'd seemed to understand what being an aromantic asexual was about for me (though I didn't use that term because at the time there was no community; this occurred in the late 1990s). He wheedled for a while saying the night "wasn't complete" without a kiss, and against my better judgment I told him he could have a kiss on my cheek if that would help. His response was to lick my face, like a dog. And then he did not seem to understand why I did not want to hang out with him after that.]

[Why I did not block him completely after that I will never know (guess I was more forgiving then), but I was fairly friendly to him in the IMs most of the time. Until he said some VERY wrong things and I had to cut him off for good. Excerpt begins, with explanations inserted in brackets where necessary. I changed the names/screennames to protect the, er, innocent?]

[He opened by randomly telling me he "loved me," and then started trying to pressure me into having a picnic with him. It was something I'd said I liked to do during our first conversation; I used to take my friends onto the roof of the college and have roof picnics. He really wanted to do this.]

SwankiVY2: So why do you want to have a picnic with me anyway?

SwankiVY2: Since I'm not really your type of girl.

Ken: why would I not

Ken: Ivy??? Let me talk to Ivy please.

SwankiVY2: Didn't think you should still have an interest in me, since I seem to always disappoint you.

Ken: because you won't have sex with me?

SwankiVY2: Well, that's true, but that's not why.

SwankiVY2: Just seems like you want some other kinda girl, and since I'm not like that, you still try to fit me in that mold, I dunno. You sure you actually want to spend time with *me*?

[snip for length, more pressuring]

Ken: I am a very sensitive guy and I love hanging out with you. I just wish you were more affectionate.

SwankiVY2: Affectionate? In what way?

SwankiVY2: Just, more responsive?

Ken: I didn't mean to be a jerk or anything.

SwankiVY2: Well, nobody means to be a jerk.

[snip for, yes, even more attempts to get a date on the calendar, which I ducked]

Ken: I just want to be friends

SwankiVY2: Well, thank goodness for that!

Ken: why do you say it like that?

SwankiVY2: I'd be pretty offended if you still wanted to be MORE than that after considering my feelings on the subject. It would mean you were pushing for something against my wishes.

SwankiVY2: So, thank goodness you don't want anything else, or I probably wouldn't want to talk to you anymore.

Ken: If I were you, I would be flattered, not offended. I was afraid to tell you that because I thought you might get offended.

SwankiVY2: If you were me, you'd be flattered to hear what?

Ken: I'd be flattered if you told me that you still liked me even after you knew how I felt about the subject.

SwankiVY2: Yeah, the operative word there is "like." I find friendship a little bit different than people, ya know, lusting after me.

SwankiVY2: If you knew my views yet you kept coming after me, I'd be mighty pissed off.

SwankiVY2: If you just didn't want anything else besides sex and then you found out I wasn't good for that, and then left me alone, I'd just say "oh well," it's happened before and I don't care.

Ken: sex isn't the only thing you don't give though

SwankiVY2: Well, sex and those things relating. Considering you obviously wanted to kiss me and some other things, I had to assume you were attracted to me, and consequently you are a person I have to be careful with.

Ken: sometimes its good to have someone to hold and kiss.

SwankiVY2: Ya, but I ain't yer someone, and I figured you must realize that.

Ken: you are not that someone but I am. For you not for me.

SwankiVY2: Well, you obviously want someone to do that stuff with, and that's fine, but if you want to keep friendly contact with me, it's going to have to be exactly that: friendly.

SwankiVY2: If I hang out with you, it's hanging out, not like a "date" or anything, ya know? And I have a feeling sometimes that's how you view our get-togethers.

Ken: stop being so defensive,

SwankiVY2: Hey, I'm not being defensive, I'm being straight-up with you, like I always am and always have been.

SwankiVY2: I don't play games, I told you that from day one.

Ken: I can't change who you are and you can't change who I am.

SwankiVY2: Yeah, exactly.

SwankiVY2: So is there something about you that I can't accept the way you are?

Ken: my affectionism

SwankiVY2: If your "affectionism" is going to include hand-holding, snuggling, and kissing, I'm not dealing with it.

Ken: forget the handholding and the kissing, just snuggling.

SwankiVY2: Uh-uh, I don't think so.

Ken: who said I was asking for permission?

SwankiVY2: If you're planning on doing something with me, you'd better be asking permission before you start snuggling with me. I'm not doing it, I won't tolerate it...

SwankiVY2: and if *you* can't tolerate me *not* snuggling, I'm not going to be able to hang out with you. That's all there is to it.

Ken: my god you get so defensive.

SwankiVY2: ::raises eyebrows:: I'm really not being defensive. I'm telling you the truth.

Ken: big kiss [[muaw]]

SwankiVY2: Mm-hmm.

Ken: what does that mean?

SwankiVY2: Nothing but an online nod.

Ken: you make sex to be such a big deal.

SwankiVY2: Oho! Now when did we start talking about sex? And since when is it NOT a big deal?

Ken: you know what I feel like watching some pornos.

SwankiVY2: Your deal. Go for it.

Ken: would you enjoy that??> Maybe we can wATCH THEM TOGETHER SOMETIME

SwankiVY2: You don't know when to quit, do you? You think I enjoy this kind of bullshit?

SwankiVY2: You think that makes me want to go on a picnic with you, when you act like a dick?

Ken: I am not acting like a dick.

SwankiVY2: You just made a crack about me watching porno with you. I don't think it's very funny.

Ken: okay sorry I am a very moody person.

SwankiVY2: I know that. I've noticed. You gotta quit blowing up at me when I don't react how you expect or how you want.

Ken: if you want me to take that advice you take it too

SwankiVY2: Well, I'm not blowing up. I've told you the truth, and maybe you think it's defensive or something (you keep saying that), but I'm just telling you straight up what I believe and think.

SwankiVY2: You obviously didn't mean it when you asked if I wanted to watch porno with you. There was no reason for that. There's reasons for the stuff I'm saying.

Ken: you don't think I would enjoy watching pornos with you? I get bored watching them alone.

SwankiVY2: That would have to be your problem. I think you pretty much knew I wouldn't want to, and that I wouldn't find that comment funny.

Ken: please accept my apology for th 100000time

SwankiVY2: I'm not after apologies; if you have to do it 100000 times you're not learning what you're doing wrong. I don't want you to be sorry, I just want you to quit making those comments, ya know?

[He stopped talking at that point and signed off. He tried to talk to me shortly after that and I told him I was not in the mood to talk. Then another day, he came back with this:]

Ken: Ivy whats up? Are you still pissed at me?

SwankiVY2: Well, we did end on a sour note last time, didn't we?

Ken: Not me, I was having a good day but you were pissed for some reason.

SwankiVY2: No, the time before that.

SwankiVY2: Not the time i said I wasn't in the mood to talk.

SwankiVY2: I wasn't in the mood to talk because the time we'd talked before that involved talking about watching porno with you, and there was never any resolution...

SwankiVY2: So, it never resolved.

Ken: Honestly I don't remember, but did you not want to watch porno with me???

SwankiVY2: Hell friggin no, and you should know that, hon.

Ken: Why are you still up this late?

SwankiVY2: Um, too much limeade...

Ken: lol

Ken: I miss staying up all night with you.

[Note: Uh, he stayed up "all night with me" ONCE, playing video games in my room.]

Ken: The first night I thought we were gonna get it on, but I was to shy.

SwankiVY2: Excuse me? Get it on? After I talked to you for over an hour about how I *don't* like that stuff?

Ken: That is what I thought, you know how guys are like. Besides you looked so good.

SwankiVY2: I suppose that is supposed to be a compliment but do you realize the first night we met was my foundation of all our further encounters?

SwankiVY2: And that you're telling me now that you basically weren't listening to or weren't believing anything I was saying?

Ken: How exactly do you infer that from my simple statement. I did listen and understand everything you said. You seem to think that my intelligence is some type of mirage. Hormones do not limit one's intellect.

SwankiVY2: Of course they don't, or they shouldn't. But are you telling me you *still* thought we would "get it on" after what I said?

SwankiVY2: I mean, that leads me to believe you're gonna discount anything *else* I say...and continue doing and saying things I don't like.

Ken: I can't help it if I say stuff that you don't like, but just the way you expect me to respect your view on the subject of Sex you should respect mine. The bottom line is I wanted to have sex with you.

SwankiVY2: Yeah, understood, and accepted, but what is *not* acceptable is you saying you still thought you were going to get it that night after all I said...

Ken: You don't seem to understand my point of view. I find intelligent women very sexually attractive and its not really that I thought we were going to do it, but that I wanted to do "it"

SwankiVY2: Wanting is different than expectation, which is what your first sentence insinuated; you said "I thought we were gonna get it on." So, to clarify, you mean you *wished* we would, but didn't actually think we were?

Ken: I took two years of psychology in high school and although that doesn't give me any right whatsoever to judge you, I thought that what you needed was someone whom you yourself was attracted to and was intellectuallt aroused by. I know I was the closest you have ever been to someone with that character.

SwankiVY2: You are kidding me!

SwankiVY2: You...think I was attracted to you?

Ken: The most popular defense mechanism is denial, please don't insult me by playing childish games...and don't get pissed at me either because I have a great deal of respect for you.

SwankiVY2: Well, one also denies something if it's, um, not true. I don't think I'm being "childish" by telling you that I don't, and never did, have any attraction towards you.

Ken: Sexual attraction is not something that is said verbally, its a vibe...something that you communicate to me unconciously...but if you can honestly tell me that you were never attracted to me, I will believe you.

SwankiVY2: Guess you really weren't listening. I dunno, do I have to, like, slap you with a hammer for you to understand that my sex drive is totally absent?

Ken: Ivy, are you a human being? Are you a mammal? Sex is an instinct not a choice.

SwankiVY2: Ken, have you really studied psychology? Never heard of something called "hypoactive sexual desire disorder"? There are a lot of people who don't have sexual feelings.

SwankiVY2: of the criteria for it to be a *disorder* is that the person experiencing the lack of sexual feelings considers it a problem.

Ken: Do you think its a problem? I think that sex is something that you could enjoy if you did it with someone with similar activities as you. If there was anyone, it was definetly me.

SwankiVY2: No, I don't think it's a problem, another one of the things I said in our "first conversation" on the subject. Maybe I would enjoy it...but not with someone who expects me to have those feelings.

SwankiVY2: It also makes no sense to say that I would want sex with someone who has similar activities or interests, and then say you are that person...we seem to have very few common interests, actually.

Ken: you play with my head, you are to smart for me.

SwankiVY2: Another thing I told you a long time ago was that I *don't* "play with people's heads."

SwankiVY2: I'm just telling you the truth...if you make it into a gigantic maze, consisting of what you think I want and what you know I want and what you think I would like...

SwankiVY2: Then of course it seems complicated.

Ken: All I know is what I want, if you told me what you wanted I would try my hardest to accomplish it...

SwankiVY2: *grin* I've told you. Numerous times. You don't remember what I want?

Ken: I mean sexually.

SwankiVY2: You expect me to tell you what I want sexually when I don't want any sex at all, not from you or anyone else? How paradoxical is that?

Ken: Life is full of paradoxes...Ivy there is more between us than just a simple friendship attraction.

SwankiVY2: Are you sure that's not just what you *think*? I'm telling you, I find it *extremely* offensive that you're pulling this crap with me, trying to convince me that I want you.

SwankiVY2: You just can't satisfy the sexual needs of someone who has no sexual needs.

SwankiVY2: If I had any, at this point, I'd be pretty reluctant to bring them to your attention, either.

Ken: You never bring them to my attention, at any point.

SwankiVY2: Well, in the past, as in so far, that's totally because they don't EXIST, Ken. But I'm saying now, that if I ever do have them, I'm not planning on directing any of them at you.

SwankiVY2: You understand what I mean? Telling a girl she likes you kind of puts her off.

SwankiVY2: I mean, basically, what I'm getting here is "You like me, you want me, admit it!" and I'm supposed to respond positively to this kind of crap?

[He signed off at that point and I blocked him (and blocked his e-mail), and as far as I know he never tried to contact me again. I'm sure that if he ever thinks about me, he remembers me as a poor repressed person who freaked out and ran away because she couldn't handle being called out on her overwhelming attraction to him. I really hope he either grew out of this bullshit or is not married, because that whole "telling a woman what you KNOW she feels" thing REALLY creeps me out. Oh, and I told my sister about this later and she told me she thought the "vibe" he mentioned was just his horniness, and no one was attached to that but him.]

Comment on this loser!

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Email address:
Which jerk?
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Comments from others:

Wolfgang: "HIM:Ivy, there's something special between us.
YOU:What would that be?
HIM:There's a penis between us, Ivy. It rhymes because it's true. Well, okay, it rhymes in some dialects. That just means it's true in the South. We should move to Texas together!
YOU: I'm not interested in Texas.
HIM: But Texas is a vibe. It's not something that can be communicated verbally. You just needed someone to whom you were Texasually attracted."
So maybe that's not how you think that conversation went, but that conversation isn't something that can be communicated verbally, it's a VIBE!

[All Conversations With Assholes]