Open Diary Entries

Why didn't Jesus remind you...?


Today in a conversation with my friend Fred, this anecdote came up, so I decided to ruminate on it again.

Once I was coming out of Wal-Mart when I was asked for a donation by a guy holding a collection cup. I fumbled in my pockets trying to see if I had anything to spare, but I had given all my money to a homeless guy earlier in the day, so I gave up. But in my fumbling, the collector noticed that I was wearing a pentacle necklace.

"That symbol around your neck," he said. "Does that have any meaning to you?"


It was then that I noticed the can he held out to me had a little Jesus fish on it, and that the table behind him had a sign proclaiming its association with some brand of Christian ministry. His T-shirt proclaimed some sort of Godvertisement. I sighed.

In a rather friendly way, I explained to him that the pentacle did in fact have a meaning to me, and that the five points indicated the integration of the four elements, Earth, Air, Fire, and Water, with the spirit (the top point), encircled in an endless loop and all interacting with each other, depending on each other. He had never heard that explanation before and was suitably impressed that I didn't confirm his belief that it was Satan's mark.

We had a somewhat involved discussion at that point. He informed me that my beliefs sounded rather like a Pagan philosophy, which I confirmed. He claimed that my belief system was flawed because I was worshipping the creation and not the Creator, and my response was that if the Creator is all things, He/She/It is the Earth too. I launched into a short explanation of my concept of deity: That as a whole, we as the Creation perpetually create ourselves, and that that is no less likely than inventing a magical invisible guy who poofed us into being. (I didn't say it in that way, of course, because I was being quite civil with him even though he held an aura of "holier than thou" and "Yea, I must bring this strayed sheep back to the Lord's flock.")

He gave me some crap about how on-target the Bible is and always has been, and when I asked politely about the parts that contradict each other, he chalked it up (of course) to Satan's meddling in the translation.

It was then that I began to wonder if Satan also caused him to forget to zip his fly last time he was in the bathroom.

Because there it was, gaping wide open, and I could see his merry holy drawers on display for all the world.

Why didn't Jesus remind him to zip his fly in his fight against the powers of darkness? Satan, you evil, mischievous critter, displaying the goodies of holy men and embarrassing them!

The preacher and I chatted some more, and I asked him, genuinely interested in the answer, why he believed the Bible was true. He couldn't really give me a straight answer other than that the Bible said it was true so it must be true, and besides he felt the truth of Jesus in his heart. I told him that I didn't believe a revealed text could convey the only truth of life, and that God in His Magnificence must be able to give people the right idea through their life experiences as well. I told him that I believed what I believed because every day I see nature reflecting back to me the truths that I believe; that life in many forms is an unending circle, a spiral, a dance of joy, pain, death, and rebirth.

I believed what I believed because I'd seen it work.

No prophecy, no "you'll be sorry," no middleman to Heaven, no contradictions, no life-is-a-test; I got my beliefs, I said, from the very mirror of life itself. It didn't need to be written down by someone with some far-reaching authority; it needed to prove itself true in my life. I told him I refused to believe that our life was meaningless except for a test to choose between belonging to Satan or serving a being who's already omnipotent and could get what He wants without toadies.

Yes, I got the free will speech, about how if God made us in such a way that we had no choice but to love Him, then the love would be meaningless, and for the love to mean anything to Him, we had to choose it. I replied that that certainly made sense, but for such an important choice, it is cruel and unusual punishment to throw all kinds of false religions at us to make us stray from the path, to confront us with Earthly rewards, to create us in such a way that our very nature is to sin, to give us no guidance other than random missionaries and a book that stays on the bestseller list for two thousand years. (I bet Stephen King could do that!) I told him I fail to believe in a "loving God" who could nevertheless cause us to suffer endlessly in Hell for not betting on the right horse. "Wah-wah-wah, oh, I'm sorry, the answer was Jesus, that's right, Jesus! You don't win the grand prize of a tea party with God for all eternity, but your consolation prize is that you'll never be lonely--Satan will keep you company forever. Thanks for playing Whose God Is It Anyway?!"

At that point I kind of had to go because daylight was running out and I hadn't brought my bike lights, so I bid him goodbye. He asked if I didn't have time for a quick prayer with him, and I told him I appreciated his efforts but no, I didn't think a prayer would be appropriate. He smiled and assured me that he just *knew* I would find Jesus very soon since I was such a bright young lady, and off I went.

I wonder how soon afterwards he discovered that his fly was open, and whether he was then able to put two and two together and realize why I couldn't stop glancing down and then up again with a very silly grin on my face.


hm, interesting experience. [Nature Tiki]

You have more reserve in that kind of situation than I do. I would have at some point burst out laughing and asked him if Satan had made him forget to zip his pants. I have a very weird sense of humor when it comes to that kind of situation. [RavenSilverPhoenix]

At least you ran into a civil one. I got harassed in a Books-A-Million by a very militant Christian who staked out the occult section. I, as well as the above noter, probably would have asked him if Satan made him forget his fly, but I'm not a very nice person. I threatened to beat up the Books-A-Million preacher. ;-} [Lady Arianrhod]

The reliablility of the bible? An interesting topic and contradictions. First, lets talk the about the realiablity of the bible. We will start with how it is passed down, how the scribes worked. Well one of the first things that you will notice is the absolute care that was taken by the script to transpose every single word, completely accurate. If one word was incorrect, well they didn't take out [†BrotherJimWDJD]

the eraser and erase just that word. They started over again. I don't care if they were at the final Amen in Revelation a spelled it wrong. They started from scatch again. So they are meticulous in transposing. After the dead sea scrolls were found, this confirmed what I would already known, that the were completely accurate. Second, is there any other book that is prophetic (holy book), the [†BrotherJimWDJD]

the answer of course is no. Islam doesn't try, Buddist don't, etc. What is so great about that. Well, let face it if seeing is beleiving, and you can see prophecy being fulfilled before your very eyes, it doesn't take much to point a finger and say there it is. Predicted 2000 years ago. Of course I am speaking of Israel becoming a nation again. It also predicted that in the end days, it would be [†BrotherJimWDJD]

the focus of the world. Have you read the headlines in the last two years. Is there a nation on earth that has dominated the news like Israel, especially considering it is no larger than New Jersey in size. Of course you could also compare Psalm 22 and the crucifixtion. Did I mention that wasn't even a punishment that was thought of yet, but there it was was in the gospel, undeniably. I could [†BrotherJimWDJD]

write for days on that subject alone. But lets move on to some more facts about the bible. It is the most scrutinize book in the world, and has been since the printing press. It has been disected by scientist, secular and thelogian types and many have been converted trying to prove it wrong. Furhtermore, as we begin discovering more and more in digs etc. They are finding out that the bible is [†BrotherJimWDJD]

proving itself to be more accurate every day. Cities have been found, left exactly as said, scientist now say all human DNA comes back to one woman, I could have told them that from Genesis without the spending of millions of dollars. I suggest respectfully some study be done on how modern science is not taking away from the accounts of the bible, but continue to support the divine inspiration of [†BrotherJimWDJD]

the bible. As for your contradictions, I challenge you to go to your local Christian bookstore and get this book call Supposed bible contradictions and answers. I don't have time to list them all here. Translation problems, well the truth is that man was sort of right, although the way he decribed it may be a bit inaccurate, but I won't go as far as to say lying. There is a simple fact that [†BrotherJimWDJD]

as our culture dumbs down. In order to give everyone the chance to read and understand the bible, they have contineous move more and more away from LITERAL translations which translate word for word, to a THOUGHT for THOUGHT translation, were bible scholars trying to bring forth not only the words, but connect them with the intended meaning. Some huge flaws can be found, not to mention the fact [†BrotherJimWDJD]

you have now put human reasoning into a divine writing. The average american reads below the 7th grade level which the NIV is based on. And the NLT goes even lower. He was 100% right in the fact that you are worshipping the creation and not the creator. I am sorry if you don't like to hear that, but it is just the truth, and it was for that reason God gave them over to their reprobate minds. [†BrotherJimWDJD]

If you have read the bible you would also know he did not create man with a sinful nature in the beginning. Everything he created was GOOD, again back to Genesis. It was the fall of man that brought forth the sinful nature passed down through the first Adam, and conquered by the second Adam, the Lord Jesus Christ. Look around you at the elements that you describe and also notice in Matthew 24 the [†BrotherJimWDJD]

very elements you worship, will be used by God in his judgment of the Earth and mankind. Now I am sure that you think I am bashing your faith, I am not, I am just trying to give you maybe some more thoughts that he may not have been able to express. I hope that you will take seriously the thoughts I expressed, maybe read A Case for Christ, A Case for Faith, and a slew of other books that put some [†BrotherJimWDJD]

time and effort into answering those questions. I do have a question for you. That pentagram what has it always been affilated with? No so much today as yesterday. The bible also tells of the rise of many false teachers and occult type doctrine in the end days. One thing is for sure Wiccan is on the rise throughout the USA and I am sure in other places in the world also, as well as many other [†BrotherJimWDJD]

doctrines of demons etc. And last thought, how much time have you ever took to really study the bible? Not a casual glance, but in depth study, and if you have done alot, who was it by if you don't mind me asking. [†BrotherJimWDJD]

Hi, check Ezra 2:60 and Nehemiah 7:62 for a blatant transcription error. 652 vs 642 children, a simple typo, one of the many examples made in the bible. Be assured that the Torah/NT are not the only books of prophecy, and they are pretty unconvincing from my standpoint. Jesus said his end of the world jive would happen in the generation of his audience (Mat 23:36, 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 9:27 etc)

Of course none of it did, so saintly types have been waiting and trembling ever since, despite the false prophecy. Jesus also "fulfilled" many scriptures that were just meant as historical descriptions or that were completely irrelevent, like "Out of Egypt I have called my son," which was just describing the Hebrew exodus. Similar qualms with verses like the one predicting "Immanuel,"

which was meant for those living at the time. A lot of floundering and poor-fit interpretations had to be done to make Jesus the Messiah after his death. Anyway, all of this is neither here nor there, I think any reasonable god will be fine with us going with our gut and the evidence at hand. If not, how unjust to do the old bait and switch. Sorry to argue in your journal Ju-lo hyeh

UGH! I cant stand BrotherJim's incessent preaching! if it bothers you that much, talk about it on your own damn diary, man! anyways, swankivy, I think you did a fine job of defending your beliefs in a very PC manner. good good job. I wonder how he would have fared with me, an atheist. he he. [written in {skin}]

It's funny, how they say "God" is the all knowing "creator". Well, if he's so great, why does he posess so many human traits? Descrimination, jusdgment, favoretism, love, trust, et cetera. Atleast in Paganism, we accept the beauty of the human creation, and our gods/goddesses are "flawed" (by human expectation) because nature has it's ups and downs. It is the purest thing to be seen, nature.... [Pariah]

... I have too much to say on this topic to fit in a single note (and I'm apt to write ambiguously, since it's 1:10 am). But I think we all should not be preached to. I see the happiness "God" gives someone, I won't try to take that away from them. So why should my happiness be taken away from me through critism? Just a thought. (btw great entry) Cheerz - [Pariah]

*chuckles* Oh man... you have brother jim in your diary. He got into it with a friend of mine at another diary place. Actually he didn't last as long there as he does here. I think it's because we don't have circles for him to follow >:o) I am quietly working my way through your diary. Please don't think I'm stalking you. Hell I've had stalkers, but none as special as yours :o) [~Pallas Athena~]

*snickers* I've said this before, I'm Catholic and everything but that's funny, no matter what way you put it. ^__^ Besides, many Pagan ideas are 'neat' and can be incorporated into a Christian least, from what I've read so far :D And I had quite an adventure reading all of Brother Jim's notes, but he should send you an email or something if he's going to leave THAT many lying about [katqueen]

previous entry * open diary start * next entry