Subject: Re: AOL Pagans
From: Irish

How can you be a pagan!!!! All you have to do is look at the world around and know that God is the Creator! I will pray that you will become a christian before it is too late

[Since it was after Christmas when I got around to reading this, I figured AOL would probably remove this board very soon, so I clicked the option that said "post to board AND e-mail the author" when I replied, so I could be sure that this person received my reaction. Here is my reply to this post]

To: Irish
From: Ivy
Subject: Re: AOL Pagans

How can you be a pagan!!!!

Pagans can be pagans probably for the same reason you can be otherwise: they believe it's right.

All you have to do is look at the world around and know that God is the Creator!

It is odd to me that you can be this close-minded . . . of course if you believe God created everything, you look around and think it obvious. If you believe instead that we are all someone's dream, other things present themselves as "obvious" evidence that the theory is right. We see what we want to see through the lens of our beliefs. It is not fair to apply your lens to other people and react with scorn and disbelief that others don't see your way.

I will pray that you will become a christian before it is too late

Perhaps others who see differently might pray to their ideas of God that you see their light too . . . thinking of YOU as the poor blind one . . . thinking of YOU as the one that needs to get a clue . . . remember to treat others, when you speak to them with a loving message, as you would like to be treated facing the same sort of thing. . . .

I'd suggest first of all learning what other people believe before you attack them . . . second of all learning to speak with love instead of attacking . . . and third of all to examine why you believe what you do before you bludgeon other people with your apparently groundless beliefs . . . offer some REASONS to believe "God is the Creator" rather than simply yelling that it is true and basically that people are wrong for not agreeing . . . that is mean and pointless, not a help to anyone.

Well, that's all for now. Hope this helps. . . .

--Ivy

[I received the reply in my mailbox.]

To: Ivy
From: Irish
Subject: Re: AOL Pagans

I will refuse to accept that God is not our creator! This is not an issue to debate, as so doing would be very offensive to me, as well as OUR CREATOR. I refuse to take this lightly as I am very strong on Christianity. Thank you for your input, but it does not change how I feel or react.

[And here is my reply:]

To: Irish
From: Ivy
Subject: Re: AOL Pagans

I will refuse to accept that God is not our creator!

I didn't ask you to not accept it. I didn't say anything asking you to change your religion, either. I just asked that you be kind when talking to others who don't share your faith. It seems to me that as a Christian you might want to get others to share your faith, correct? I was explaining to you that the way you go about it is offensive, rude, and ultimately ineffective.

You are free to believe whatever you choose, but that does not mean you're free to be a rude, judgmental jerk whenever you discuss religion with someone that doesn't agree with you. In your Bible, the book you consider the word of God, it says, "Judge not lest ye be judged." It also says that the creator will judge you by what measure you judge others. You claim to be Christian but have you actually read and understood the words that you supposedly live by?

This is not an issue to debate, as so doing would be very offensive to me, as well as OUR CREATOR.

Like I said, I don't intend to "debate" anything with you. I don't want to argue about religion with you, and wasn't attacking anything about your religion. The only thing I could be said to be "attacking" is your attitude toward people that don't believe what you do. Do you hate people who aren't Christians? Do you see us as sub-human? You sure do act like it. You attack us with statements that amount to "how dare you not believe what I do?" Don't you understand that there are plenty of people out there who aren't Christian that have just as much "evidence" for the correctness of their religion as you do? If you think people are committing blasphemy by speaking against your "creator," then you should at least understand that you're committing the same blasphemy in their eyes, sometimes. In our eyes, we are not "going against the word of God." We don't see God as you do. By assigning God some of the qualities you seem to, you make Him seem like an irrational two-year-old. I would prefer to see an almighty being as all-loving and all-understanding, not someone who will toss you in a pit of hell for all eternity because you made the wrong decision or refused to worship Him the way someone decided was right a long time ago. So like I said, believe whatever you like, but if you want people to listen seriously to the things you say, don't trample them and verbally abuse them for not sharing your faith. When you have a message to share, you should share it with love and tolerance, and really listen to the other person's side . . . otherwise, not only do you not share your message, but you make yourself look like a complete jerk. Understand?

--Ivy

[Here are a couple other threads that were on the board that didn't involve me but involved Irish . . . the first one is just a regular post, then Irish's response, then a couple of responses . . . kinda entertaining if you ask me.]

[Here is the relevant part of a post by Rave--real e-mail withheld.]

Subject: Merry Yule :)
From: Rave

Merry Meet :)

I was shocked and rather bothered as most of you were that AOL excluded our Pagan / Wiccan religions. I read most your posts on Yule and am responding here ;)

[This is Irish's response to Rave's post.]

Subject: Re: Merry Yule :)
From: Irish

I am not shocked!!! We do not need any nuts and witches. This world was created by God. If you do not believe this, I will pray for you , too

[This is Hecate's responses to that:]

Subject: Re: Merry Yule :)
From: Hecate

We do not need any nuts and witches.

EXCUSE me, but don't group me with nuts, according to YOU it was created by your God, and don't pray for me, I don't need saving, nor don't send me to hell, or wherever~

I will pray that you will become a christian before it is too late

too late for what????
Pagan n~proud Mom of 2

[Incidentally, Irish never wrote me back. I'm not sure why. :)]

Wolfgang: "We don'tneed nuts or witches"
I have friends who are vegan. They need all the nuts they can get. Without animal products, you see, it's pretty hard to get protein, so they have to eat and drink a lot of products made form nuts and beans to make up for the fact that.... Oh. Wrong kind of nut. sorry.