To: Ivy
From: Dana
Subj: Hello

Oh boy, I need help explaining everything to you! Trying the best I can . . . Other religions may have good causes, and they may be well-loving, but I'm sorry, they're still wrong!

Yes it's possible to twist the truth, but WHY don't you believe me??

Gee, the other religions are not *all* being spoken to by God(I know that the Devil speaks to me sometimes and I'm not sure if it's God or him), OK? God spoke to them, his VOICE SPOKE TO THEM NOT JUST THINKING!!!

You watched too many movies! God is an Immortal, he is NOT at ALL a human being, and he doesn't just sit up in the clouds looking at the earth. (It sounds kinda likely but it isn't true. He is in heaven and is laughing because of the joy he gets from some people. God is Supernatural. God, is not judgemental!!

I don't know everything ya know. God has a body, I am almost certain of that! Find something wrong with christianity? I'd like you to right now, I just want to see what you find wrong with it!!

[Here is my reply; quotes from her in Courier.]

To: Dana
From: Ivy
Subj: Re: Hello

Other religions may have good causes, and they may be well-loving, but I'm sorry, they're still wrong!

I understand that you think they're wrong. But that doesn't mean that it's a fact. I don't mean to disrespect you or anything, but what you believe is simply what you believe, no matter how sure you are. You can be absolutely positive and be willing to throw yourself off a cliff to prove you believe it and it still does not make it any more true . . . it just shows how wholeheartedly you believe it. To me, what you believe is simply your opinion; I do not see it as fact, and I do not fail to understand it. I simply disagree with you, and if you believe that it means I and everyone else who does not accept it is damned to Hell, it is still your belief and not a fact. You can assert it is a fact. But that does not make it so.

God is Supernatural. God, is not judgemental!!

That appears to be a contradiction of sorts. If God judges each and every one of us, he must be judgmental.

I said that humans assume that God is as judgmental as they are. Humans like to hear a definite answer . . . yes or no, guilty or not guilty. I tend to think that, as all-loving and all-beneficial and all-knowing as God is, He would not need to judge us but would *teach* us . . . I learned in philosophy that a guy named Socrates (you've probably heard of him) thought that no man does wrong on purpose. If we do wrong, according to good old Socrates, it is because we have not been taught not to. Therefore, villains should not be *punished*; they should be taught. I can see the truth in this, and so might God. I would think that if humans did something God didn't like, He would not just say "I smite thee!" and throw someone to Hell for all eternity. Your Bible sometimes refers to God as The Father . . . if we do something wrong, as God's children, I can see Him sitting us on His knee and saying, "You have sinned, my son." Then He would talk to us, telling us what we did wrong and why, and tell us to correct ourselves. And then . . . then, He would give us another chance. A loving mother or father would *never* take their child and throw it in a garbage can to rot . . . and I like to think that God, as our father, would never leave us to suffer forever in a pit of Hell. If you believe that any son or daughter of God would be allowed to go to Hell, regardless of accepting Jesus, then there is something wrong with the God concept. Either He loves His children and accepts them all, or He is *not* all-beneficial. And if He accepts and loves all His children, then nobody goes to Hell. It can't be both. . . .

Yes it's possible to twist the truth, but WHY don't you believe me??

Because I believe something else, which is in contrast to what you believe. I have many reasons for believing what I do, just as you must. I don't believe you simply because you tell me it's true a bunch of times, or because other people do. I don't really know if the Bible is the word of God. But there is no proof that it is, except that a bunch of people say it is. And quite a few more say it's not. :) I believe that if God speaks to people, then he does it in a way that we cannot hear as a "voice"; if he really wanted us to listen to him, he would just place his thoughts as our own, and we would obey them. If this is the case, then God already does it. I don't really see why he would need to have a book made with his word, since as the all-powerful God he could tell us all himself. And there is obviously some doubt that God wrote the Bible, since...we're having this conversation.

Gee, the other religions are not *all* being spoken to by God(I know that the Devil speaks to me sometimes and I'm not sure if it's God or him), OK? God spoke to them, his VOICE SPOKE TO THEM NOT JUST THINKING!!!

Well...again...not to sound rude, but you don't know beyond a shadow of a doubt that that is true.

Find something wrong with christianity? I'd like you to right now, I just want to see what you find wrong with it!!

First of all, in the King James version of the Bible there is a place that explains how many slaves people are allowed to own based on their social status. I don't think owning slaves is right, but it's in the Bible. Yet a lot of devout Christians admit that this is not "right."

Also, I've discussed with you the whole business of prophet vs psychic. I think it is wrong to make the decision for yourself whether someone is being talked to by God or the devil just on your own personal beliefs; since both God and the devil are beyond our sphere of total understanding, it is obvious that sometimes what they do would not make sense to us.

Thirdly, most of the things I've been discussing with you in this email are things I find wrong with either Christianity or with religion on the whole.

Why did God need to send His son to us in order to forgive us for our sins? Why do we need a go-between, a middleman, a . . . personal savior? God is capable of anything. Why could He not forgive us without the help of a half-mortal man?

The point of view of Christianity is also that humans are born "bad"; at least that's what I have gleaned. In Baptism, you can be washed free of the sins you were born with, and in general you are absolved of sin when you accept Jesus. But why are we inherently "bad"? Why are we born with sin? I don't believe that is a very healthy way to see oneself.

Lastly, I believe that solicitation of others to a religion is not fair to anyone and only wastes both parties' time . . . and frankly, Christianity, along with the Jehovah's Witnesses and Hare Krishnas, are famous for this. I think you would probably find it annoying if a Hare Krishna came up to you and gave you a little flier that explains why you should love Krishna (because it is the only way) and never eat meat (because Krishna said so) and meditate every day (because Krishna commands). In essence, Christians do the same thing; they go out seeking to convert everyone they can, and most of the time it does *not* come across nicely . . . it comes across more like "I'm right and you're a sinner; isn't it time you woke up?" This is obviously not the intent, since the Christians only want to help, but most of the time it does not come across the way they want it to, and only bothers the person. Because they are convinced that this is the *only* right way and everyone must accept their personal point of view, and . . . here's the clincher . . . they have no proof that it works, so you have to take it on faith. Do you know how close-minded that sounds? "I'm right, you're wrong, and you better believe me or you'll go to Hell." That is one of the things I think is wrong with the Christian religion . . . that they are so sure that they are right and everyone else is wrong that they can't allow anyone else's point of view into their minds. I hope you're not like that, and I think that just by bothering to talk to me you're more open-minded than most. :)

[In response, she told me she would have to stop e-mailing me because it took up too much of her time. Oops!]