The Bible's flawless, able to be followed word for word as is God's will. But this "flawless" document contains absurdities, such as everyone coming from Adam and Eve, yet somehow Cain finds a wife that wasn't his sister; it contains contradictions, such as whether it's necessary to be circumcised (Gen 17:10 says yes, Gal 5:2 says no--not to mention all the numerical screw-ups in there); it contains false prophecies (such as Jeremiah 42:17, which basically says ALL men who go to Egypt will die by sword, famine, or pestilence, yet a lot seem to have escaped that fate over the years).
I don't think this guy has the "flawless" argument on his side anymore.
How do we know the verses everyone takes the most seriously aren't misinterpreted, misquoted, misheard, deliberately changed by someone in power, et cetera? If there is anything about the Bible, anything at all, that can be pointed out as contradictory or otherwise false, then we lose the right to assume in pure faith that it is a correct document. There are parts that might be true, sure. But people could also look at the ancient writings of Homer and actually find the places Odysseus traveled to in the books; that doesn't mean that an enchantress must have really turned all his men to pigs or that Odysseus was trapped by Calypso on an island for years. Stories tend to have actual places in them if they are based on the same reality the author lives in. It happens a lot. I have New York City in one of my books, but I somehow doubt that future generations will find my old manuscripts, use them to pick out the ruins of NYC in the distant future, and conclude that my characters must have really existed.
BrotherJimWDJD sez scientists have concluded all human DNA comes from one woman?
Um, what scientist said that?
And are there ninety-nine others who say otherwise, ninety-nine others who are being conveniently ignored?
Having a Ph.D. doesn't mean you're right, folks.
God didn't create man with a sinful nature in the beginning?
If God knows all, He knew Adam and Eve would be tempted. He is the Alpha and the Omega, after all; He is the one that orchestrated EVERYTHING. So He created that; that scenario, and the downfall of man. He had to have created Adam and Eve with the capacity to sin, and He knew they would do it.
How much in-depth studying of the Bible have I done?
Probably as much in-depth study as any Christian has done into all the other faiths his own "proves" wrong. I know the basic beliefs of Christianity, and they totally clash with my worldview. I'm told by Christians that we're sinful creatures who need God's forgiveness through the person of Jesus Christ. In my life, I don't feel that that's true. I don't feel the presence of or experience the will of a God that needs me to make some very strange little deal before He'll let me into His paradise. I think it's awful nice that Jesus wanted to wash away the sins of the world with his blood, but I just don't think the whole Universe revolves around the need to believe someone died because beyond my control I was born bad.
Now I know, I know, I'm going to be told to do in-depth Bible study and dig up all the truths and everything in the Bible, so I can see just how true it is, and realize because it does have elements of internal and historical consistency it must contain the one and only map to salvation.
But if I know the basic belief and I don't agree with it, why would I keep studying and studying? That's like if I told a Christian, who already believes Christ is the only way, that he needs to systematically experience every religion other than his own to know for sure those others are not for him. That Christian would have to go earnestly searching for enlightenment as a Buddhist monk for several years, and then spend several years studying the Talmud because the Jews might be right; take up an herb collection and work some magick and cast some circles to fully experience a Pagan religious rite and then legitimately decide it's not right; well, et cetera. If the basic nodule of the religion strikes you as WRONG, the only study you're going to do of that religion is merely as a curiosity. And that is how I've studied Christianity; I've been to several meetings of "youth groups" and have sung religious music, I have read parts of the Bible and interpreted them myself; I have talked more than I want to admit to Christians determined to save me. But even though I listen openly and take in everything about the religion that I come across, I feel no strong need to seek out more just to make sure I'm right about it being wrong; I mean no disrespect to the people trying to help me, but if they say something and it just does not ring true with me, by way of intellect, intuition, logic, or experience, I am not going to accept it as true, and that's all there is to it.
I should read A Case for Christ, and other religious materials?
I never said I was against such things. And actually once in a while I read religious books written from points of view other than my own (though I must admit to mostly reading fiction). I still very much doubt it will do much for me regarding changing my mind on Christianity, but it's always worth a shot. But my past experience with books of this nature is that they're full of excuses. Little excuses as to why that's in the Bible, or what that REALLY means...ultimately, you have to do SO much to make the Bible make sense that I just don't see why people bother.
And that's about it.
Now, I don't mind the occasional little note, even if it exists to disagree with me. But BrotherJimWDJD, if you're reading this...please no more term papers in my note box. I'd prefer to be approached out of the public eye if you really think this is worth your time. Thank you.
Well what purpose would it serve, your mind is already made up. You have all the answers, and even the things I suggested in a considerate manner without any sort of harshness of judgment and I am now being called militant. I could almost buy that if my notes were even close to being militant, but they certainly were not. Finally, why worry about the public eye. I am not ashamed of the gospel, [BrotherJimWDJD]
and will share my view in front of the entire world. Flawed as you may find them. Maybe I should post my notes that I gave you in the circle and see how militant others find them to be, if anything I was be soft, and bending over backwards not to be offensive. But in conclusion, If you have any questions please feel free to come over to my diary, write as many notes as it takes. God bless [BrotherJimWDJD]
"Your mind is already made up" is not a valid rebuttal to arguments. Of course it is smart to admit how futile it is to argue religion anonymously over the internet, especially with intelligent people who can see through 2000 year old illogic.
I aplaud your beliefs because I share them completly. I think it,s funny that god created the sun on the forth day but without the sun how did he count the preceding days, even god himself where did he come from I supose the creator created him self how much sense does that make. "there are some people that if they dont,t know, you can,t tell ,em."-Louis Armstrong [sheldonious]
Well, It has nothing to do with intellectual capacity. I am not so prideful to believe I can change a person, if a person is absolutely inflexible in their view, then the only person who can change that heart is God, and leave a door open if they want to talk. I actually stopped to add another reason I don't use email especially with woman. I am a married man and because of that I must conside [BrotherJimWDJD]
how my wife would react to that. The reality is that much can be said in private that people wouldn't dare say in public and I don't feel like leaving the door open for even the mere appearance of evil. I know that you will probably say that is garbage, but that is my conviction on this issue. If I can say it or hear it, then I can do that in public, just like their are issues I will not discuss [BrotherJimWDJD]
with at all, but would defer to a sister in the faith. Some things are not appropriate to discuss between a married man and a woman. Bottom line is don't go looking for trouble, it is too easy to find. God bless [BrotherJimWDJD]
And please name the scientist that concluded DNA came from one woman? For all these notes, you havent answered that yet.
I applaud you. I hope you've read "Athieism-the case against god" by George H Smith. Excellent book. What does brother jims wife have to do with your entry? take care ---Jude
O.K., I am a Christian. But honestly, I don't see why some people have to go and try and convert other people to their belief! So, I just think that posting a report in notes is completely ridiculous.
*whistles* Um..what's wrong with sending an email to a woman just because you have a wife...? Where's the logic in that? Well anyways, I completely enjoyed this entry about Militant Christians...a good eye-opener entry. The bible is always a topic that I discuss at youth group, cause I want answers. Not that I got anything I could understand....*walks over to next entry* [katqueen]